Photo by Juliane Spaete
Zachary Quinto: “I have a different journey”
Mr. Quinto, are you a religious person?
I grew up Catholic and my mom remains to this day really motivated by her religion. I ascribed to that through high school and I was pretty active, but when I had the ability to make my own decisions, I realized that I would rather explore a sense of being spiritual than religious and that started to clarify for me through college.
I grew up Catholic and my mom remains to this day really motivated by her religion. I ascribed to that through high school and I was pretty active, but when I had the ability to make my own decisions, I realized that I would rather explore a sense of being spiritual than religious and that started to clarify for me through college.
читать дальшеLooking back would you say that it was beneficial for you to be at least exposed to religion at a young age?
I think it’s important to have an awareness from a young age of what people grasp onto in order to feel some sense of foundation in their lives. Because if you don’t have that, then I think you’re potentially more likely to grab onto other things that are just distractions. At least if you have that seed that’s planted, you can allow it to grow for yourself. My dad died when I was young and I think that also enhanced my awareness of spirituality.
Because you start to think with more perspective when you lose somebody so close to you?
Exactly. When you lose a parent or you have a trauma at a young age, I think it’s inevitable that you’re going to think bigger and deeper than you would otherwise. But I think my mom was always a little disappointed that I wasn’t more moved to Catholicism, that I didn’t absorb that path.
But the church is a difficult, very judgmental organization.
It just seems so counterintuitive that any organization that predicates itself on the teachings of Jesus would be so aggressively exclusive of people or judgmental or hateful towards people in certain ways. And then all of the underlying hypocrisy and straight-up scandalous scenarios that are rampant in the church, it just feels really un-integrated. And I want to be an integrated person. I do think that I can draw on my exposure to those teachings when I was younger to some extent, but there are just too many discrepancies that I can’t reconcile for myself. And I’m not interested in it. I’d rather pursue my own path.
Is that how you ended up going on a spiritual retreat to Peru? I know a lot of people who have gone there to take ayahuasca in a traditional ceremony under the guidance of a shaman and have had life-changing spiritual experiences.
Yeah, friends that had been to Peru told me their stories and I was at a place where I wanted to dig deeper in my own experience, so I started to do a lot of research and I ended up there basically by researching a place that felt both safe and in line with what I wanted to tackle in myself.
Did you go by yourself?
Yes and I had an incredible time. It feels to me like the kind of thing that, once you engage it and realize what is possible, it feels like a through-line for me. I want to revisit it, I want to go back.
Would you describe ayahuasca as medicine or as a drug?
I really feel like if you enter into this experience with a kind of openness, I really think it can be tremendously healing. I think it is a medicine. I don’t think it is a drug. I think a drug is something you do for fun. Ayahuasca really physically, as well as emotionally, has the power to heal. And I experienced that in a lot of ways.
Did you meet yourself when you were younger? I’ve heard of a lot of people having that experience.
Yeah. Well, we were there for two weeks and so we did seven ceremonies while we were there. Each one was very different and I met many different versions of myself. (Laughs) And my younger self was one of them. It’s incredibly powerful, but the lessons can also be brutal. You have to be open to it and let it guide you and be available to what it has to teach you. Oftentimes the most brutal lessons are the ones you need to learn the most.
What lesson are you currently learning?
I don’t know why, but I’ve really been thinking a lot lately about, “Why am I doing what I’m doing?” When I was in college I felt limitless and I set these goals for myself and I was madly driven by these goals. Now I’ve accomplished most of those goals that I set for myself and I’ve been asking myself a lot, “Now what?” I’ll be 37 in a couple of months and I never really imagined myself in my late 30s.
Are you enjoying it or does it make you anxious?
It’s a very interesting time. I feel sometimes really perplexed and frustrated and unsure and then other times really inspired and almost sort of reconnected to that idealism, that optimism, that sense of possibility. So, I don’t know how it’s going to play out, but I’m fascinated by it and I’ve been really acutely aware of it lately, for sure.
How did you end up acting in the first place?
I think my dad’s death had a lot to do with it, because it thrust my whole family into a new dynamic. My mom all of a sudden had to provide for me and my older brother, and my brother had to step up and be the man of the family. It left me a little bit isolated and I think my imagination kicked in in order to compensate for that and I think that ultimately is what led me to pursuing it.
Was acting itself also a kind of escape?
It became somewhere where I could work through some of the stuff that I might not have had the tools to work through otherwise. I think it was a pretty psychologically necessary thing for me, actually. And then I fell in love with it and it became clear that it was something I wanted to pursue.
You started a film production company several years ago. Was that a way of setting goals for yourself beyond just acting?
Right around the time when I got Star Trek I thought, “This is the zenith of where I’ve been so far, so I want to make sure that I can continue to build rather than diminish.” I realized the level of exposure it was affording me and that it only lasts so long, so I started the company and it’s been one of the most fulfilling creative experiences that I’ve had. It’s constantly about balance. It’s constantly about balancing the business side of things and the creative side of things. I think that’s a very fine line and you have to tread it with real vigilance.
It’s probably pretty easy to get sucked into the Hollywood machine if you’re not careful.
It’s very intoxicating in a way. I feel like it’s the Sirens on a rock. It can really draw you in, it can really be mesmerizing and magnetic and if you allow yourself to go unchecked, you’re going to run aground. And I try to listen to my own voice and the voice of the people that I trust immediately around me to help navigate the sometimes choppy waters. It becomes about so many other things. It becomes about the industry, it becomes about distributors.
About money for Oscar campaigning.
Absolutely.
When All Is Lost came out, which you produced, people were saying Robert Redford was a key contender for an Oscar, but in the end he didn’t even get nominated.
Frankly, I think it comes down to how badly someone wants it and one of the things that I respect most about Bob is that he doesn’t define himself by that. He’s literally a living legend, he’s accomplished so much creatively and philanthropically, that he doesn’t need that kind of recognition and he certainly doesn’t need to fight for it or pay for it. And I respect that. Of course I would have loved to have seen him be nominated and recognized for that work, but I think that was an important lesson for me as an actor. You can’t do the work to be recognized for the work. It’s deadly.
You also demonstrated that kind of disregard for other people’s opinion when you came out as openly gay. When you did that, you had no idea what might happen as a result.
But I had reached a point in my own life and in my own journey where measuring against other people’s expectations or judgments wasn’t of any interest to me anymore. It had been for years before and that is why it took me a long time to get there, but I can’t imagine the amount of energy and effort that would have to go into maintaining the lie of being who you’re not. And maybe that means I have a different journey, but it’s just not interesting to me to live any other way. I also feel like things are changing so radically and so quickly, that I wanted to be a part of that change and stand up and be counted. Especially since I have the chance to really affect other people’s lives in a positive way.
And has that been your experience?
I can’t tell you how many young people I’ve either met or gotten letters from that have explicitly shared with me the difference that it made to them. That’s something that I can leave behind and know that is a part of the positive impact that I’ve been able to have. It doesn’t add up to anything if you just keep it to yourself. I take very seriously the distress and the pain of the young people in the world that are not met with the kind of support and acceptance that I’ve been met with in my life. I want to try to do what I can to help them and to let them know that it will pass and it will change and – as cliché as it’s become – it will get better.
It was good timing because you had just played Spock, which was a big success and most likely a recurring role for you. They couldn’t have replaced you. That would have been a horrible move, even for Hollywood.
When I made that decision I was doing the press tour for Margin Call and I used that as the opportunity. Not because I was afraid of the press in association with the Star Trek franchise, but because I wanted it to be on my terms and this was a movie that I was responsible for making and producing. I didn’t have to worry about any kind of studio reaction or any kind of internal Hollywood response to it. It was a movie that my company made, that wouldn’t have existed if I hadn’t gotten to the point that I was at in my career, and I thought, “I’m going to use this platform to engage in a conversation about who I am and who I want to be.” And there was something empowering about that because there wasn’t anybody there to tell me not to or to try to control the reaction. I was very grateful for that.
I think it’s important to have an awareness from a young age of what people grasp onto in order to feel some sense of foundation in their lives. Because if you don’t have that, then I think you’re potentially more likely to grab onto other things that are just distractions. At least if you have that seed that’s planted, you can allow it to grow for yourself. My dad died when I was young and I think that also enhanced my awareness of spirituality.
Because you start to think with more perspective when you lose somebody so close to you?
Exactly. When you lose a parent or you have a trauma at a young age, I think it’s inevitable that you’re going to think bigger and deeper than you would otherwise. But I think my mom was always a little disappointed that I wasn’t more moved to Catholicism, that I didn’t absorb that path.
But the church is a difficult, very judgmental organization.
It just seems so counterintuitive that any organization that predicates itself on the teachings of Jesus would be so aggressively exclusive of people or judgmental or hateful towards people in certain ways. And then all of the underlying hypocrisy and straight-up scandalous scenarios that are rampant in the church, it just feels really un-integrated. And I want to be an integrated person. I do think that I can draw on my exposure to those teachings when I was younger to some extent, but there are just too many discrepancies that I can’t reconcile for myself. And I’m not interested in it. I’d rather pursue my own path.
Is that how you ended up going on a spiritual retreat to Peru? I know a lot of people who have gone there to take ayahuasca in a traditional ceremony under the guidance of a shaman and have had life-changing spiritual experiences.
Yeah, friends that had been to Peru told me their stories and I was at a place where I wanted to dig deeper in my own experience, so I started to do a lot of research and I ended up there basically by researching a place that felt both safe and in line with what I wanted to tackle in myself.
Did you go by yourself?
Yes and I had an incredible time. It feels to me like the kind of thing that, once you engage it and realize what is possible, it feels like a through-line for me. I want to revisit it, I want to go back.
Would you describe ayahuasca as medicine or as a drug?
I really feel like if you enter into this experience with a kind of openness, I really think it can be tremendously healing. I think it is a medicine. I don’t think it is a drug. I think a drug is something you do for fun. Ayahuasca really physically, as well as emotionally, has the power to heal. And I experienced that in a lot of ways.
Did you meet yourself when you were younger? I’ve heard of a lot of people having that experience.
Yeah. Well, we were there for two weeks and so we did seven ceremonies while we were there. Each one was very different and I met many different versions of myself. (Laughs) And my younger self was one of them. It’s incredibly powerful, but the lessons can also be brutal. You have to be open to it and let it guide you and be available to what it has to teach you. Oftentimes the most brutal lessons are the ones you need to learn the most.
What lesson are you currently learning?
I don’t know why, but I’ve really been thinking a lot lately about, “Why am I doing what I’m doing?” When I was in college I felt limitless and I set these goals for myself and I was madly driven by these goals. Now I’ve accomplished most of those goals that I set for myself and I’ve been asking myself a lot, “Now what?” I’ll be 37 in a couple of months and I never really imagined myself in my late 30s.
Are you enjoying it or does it make you anxious?
It’s a very interesting time. I feel sometimes really perplexed and frustrated and unsure and then other times really inspired and almost sort of reconnected to that idealism, that optimism, that sense of possibility. So, I don’t know how it’s going to play out, but I’m fascinated by it and I’ve been really acutely aware of it lately, for sure.
How did you end up acting in the first place?
I think my dad’s death had a lot to do with it, because it thrust my whole family into a new dynamic. My mom all of a sudden had to provide for me and my older brother, and my brother had to step up and be the man of the family. It left me a little bit isolated and I think my imagination kicked in in order to compensate for that and I think that ultimately is what led me to pursuing it.
Was acting itself also a kind of escape?
It became somewhere where I could work through some of the stuff that I might not have had the tools to work through otherwise. I think it was a pretty psychologically necessary thing for me, actually. And then I fell in love with it and it became clear that it was something I wanted to pursue.
You started a film production company several years ago. Was that a way of setting goals for yourself beyond just acting?
Right around the time when I got Star Trek I thought, “This is the zenith of where I’ve been so far, so I want to make sure that I can continue to build rather than diminish.” I realized the level of exposure it was affording me and that it only lasts so long, so I started the company and it’s been one of the most fulfilling creative experiences that I’ve had. It’s constantly about balance. It’s constantly about balancing the business side of things and the creative side of things. I think that’s a very fine line and you have to tread it with real vigilance.
It’s probably pretty easy to get sucked into the Hollywood machine if you’re not careful.
It’s very intoxicating in a way. I feel like it’s the Sirens on a rock. It can really draw you in, it can really be mesmerizing and magnetic and if you allow yourself to go unchecked, you’re going to run aground. And I try to listen to my own voice and the voice of the people that I trust immediately around me to help navigate the sometimes choppy waters. It becomes about so many other things. It becomes about the industry, it becomes about distributors.
About money for Oscar campaigning.
Absolutely.
When All Is Lost came out, which you produced, people were saying Robert Redford was a key contender for an Oscar, but in the end he didn’t even get nominated.
Frankly, I think it comes down to how badly someone wants it and one of the things that I respect most about Bob is that he doesn’t define himself by that. He’s literally a living legend, he’s accomplished so much creatively and philanthropically, that he doesn’t need that kind of recognition and he certainly doesn’t need to fight for it or pay for it. And I respect that. Of course I would have loved to have seen him be nominated and recognized for that work, but I think that was an important lesson for me as an actor. You can’t do the work to be recognized for the work. It’s deadly.
You also demonstrated that kind of disregard for other people’s opinion when you came out as openly gay. When you did that, you had no idea what might happen as a result.
But I had reached a point in my own life and in my own journey where measuring against other people’s expectations or judgments wasn’t of any interest to me anymore. It had been for years before and that is why it took me a long time to get there, but I can’t imagine the amount of energy and effort that would have to go into maintaining the lie of being who you’re not. And maybe that means I have a different journey, but it’s just not interesting to me to live any other way. I also feel like things are changing so radically and so quickly, that I wanted to be a part of that change and stand up and be counted. Especially since I have the chance to really affect other people’s lives in a positive way.
And has that been your experience?
I can’t tell you how many young people I’ve either met or gotten letters from that have explicitly shared with me the difference that it made to them. That’s something that I can leave behind and know that is a part of the positive impact that I’ve been able to have. It doesn’t add up to anything if you just keep it to yourself. I take very seriously the distress and the pain of the young people in the world that are not met with the kind of support and acceptance that I’ve been met with in my life. I want to try to do what I can to help them and to let them know that it will pass and it will change and – as cliché as it’s become – it will get better.
It was good timing because you had just played Spock, which was a big success and most likely a recurring role for you. They couldn’t have replaced you. That would have been a horrible move, even for Hollywood.
When I made that decision I was doing the press tour for Margin Call and I used that as the opportunity. Not because I was afraid of the press in association with the Star Trek franchise, but because I wanted it to be on my terms and this was a movie that I was responsible for making and producing. I didn’t have to worry about any kind of studio reaction or any kind of internal Hollywood response to it. It was a movie that my company made, that wouldn’t have existed if I hadn’t gotten to the point that I was at in my career, and I thought, “I’m going to use this platform to engage in a conversation about who I am and who I want to be.” And there was something empowering about that because there wasn’t anybody there to tell me not to or to try to control the reaction. I was very grateful for that.
за перевод большое спасибо miss cheesecake
Вы религиозный человек?
Я вырос католиком, и моя мама до сих пор очень религиозна. Я придерживался этих взглядов и был активистом в старших классах, но как только у меня появилась способность принимать собственные решения, я осознал, что скорее хочу быть духовным человеком, чем религиозным. И в колледже это осознание еще усилилось.
читать дальшеОглядываясь назад, можете ли вы сказать, что было что-то положительное в том, что вас с ранних лет приобщили к религии?Я думаю, важно с юных лет иметь представление о том, за что люди держатся, чтобы почувствовать какую-то опору в жизни. Потому что если у тебя этого нет, ты потенциально можешь удариться в другие вещи, которые будут просто тебя отвлекать. По крайней мере, если в тебе есть это зерно, ты можешь дать ему прорасти/вырасти. Мой отец умер, когда я был еще маленьким, думаю, это тоже углубило мое понимание духовности.
Потому что, когда ты теряешь кого-то очень близкого, ты начинаешь больше задумываться о таких вещах?
Именно. Если ты потерял кого-то из родителей, если у тебя была какая-то травма в юном возрасте, думаю, ты неизбежно начинаешь мыслить глубже, чем если бы этого не произошло. Но мне кажется, моя мама всегда была немного расстроена тем, что католическая вера не стала мне так близка, что я не избрал этот путь.
Но церковь - это сложная, очень склонная к осуждению, к критике организация.
Она кажется такой парадоксальной… Основанная на учении Христа, она при этом так агрессивно подчеркивает свою привилегированность, осуждает людей и определенным образом их ненавидит. Плюс еще подспудное лицемерие и откровенно скандальные инциденты, которые процветают в церкви. Она действительно кажется разобщенной. А я хотел быть целостной личностью. Я на самом деле считаю, что до какой-то степени могу почерпнуть что-то из того факта, что меня в раннем возрасте познакомили с этим учением, но в нем есть столько противоречий, с которыми я не могу примириться. Мне это и неинтересно. Я лучше буду идти своей собственной дорогой.
Поэтому вы поехали в Перу, в поисках духовного убежища (уединения)? Я знаю многих людей, которые поехали туда, чтобы во время традиционного ритуала выпить Айяуаску под наблюдением шамана; этот духовный опыт изменил всю их жизнь.
Да, друзья, которые уже там побывали, рассказали мне свои истории, а у меня в жизни как раз был такой момент, когда мне хотелось самому почувствовать более глубокие ощущения. Поэтому я начал собирать информацию, и, в конечном итоге, оказался там, т.к. искал такое место, которое сочетало бы в себе безопасность и трудности, которые я хотел преодолеть сам.
Вы ездили туда один?
Да, и это было невероятно. Стоит только увлечься этим и осознать, что это возможно, и это становится главной линией жизни, как мне кажется. Я хочу снова там оказаться, хочу вернуться.
Вы бы описали Айяуаску как наркотик или как лекарство?
Я на самом деле думаю, если вы подходите к этому ритуалу со всей открытостью, он может быть чрезвычайно целительным. Я считаю, это лекарство, а не наркотик. Наркотик – это то, что вы принимаете для забавы или развлечения. Айяуаска - как физически, так и духовно – исцеляет. И я во многом ощутил это на себе.
Вы встретили младшую копию себя? Я слышал, многие люди переживают этот опыт.
Да. Ну, мы там были две недели и проходили через 7 церемоний. Они все были разными, и я встретил несколько разных вариантов себя. (смеется) И моя младшая копия была среди них. Это невероятно сильное переживание, но уроки могут быть жестоки. Тебе нужно быть полностью открытым, позволить вести себя и принимать то, чему тебя учат. Часто самые жестокие уроки – те, которые тебе нужнее всего.
И какой урок вы усваиваете сейчас?
Не знаю, почему, но в последнее время я часто задаюсь вопросом «Почему я занимаюсь тем, чем занимаюсь?». Когда я был в колледже, я не чувствовал границ, я ставил перед собой цели, и они меня невероятно мотивировали. Теперь большинство этих целей достигнуто, и я часто спрашиваю себя: «Что дальше?». Через пару месяцев мне будет 37, и я раньше никогда не представлял себя в эти годы.
Вы получаете удовольствие от этого или вас это тревожит?
Это интересное время. Иногда я чувствую себя сбитым с толку, расстроенным и неуверенным, а иногда – действительно воодушевленным, как будто я снова обрел тот идеализм, оптимизм, когда все кажется возможным. Так что не знаю, во что все это выльется, но я очарован этим, и в последнее время я совершенно точно и очень остро осознаю это.
Как вы пришли к тому, что стали актером?
Думаю, смерть отца во многом повлияла на это решение, потому что она перевернула жизнь всей нашей семьи. Внезапно моей маме пришлось обеспечивать меня и моего старшего брата, а моему брату пришлось стать главой семьи. Из-за этого я чувствовал себя немного оторванным от них, одиноким, и, думаю, дал волю воображению, чтобы каким-то образом это компенсировать. И именно это привело меня в эту профессию.
Было ли актерство само по себе подобием ухода от реальности?
Оно стало тем местом, где я мог прорабатывать такие вещи, с которыми в другом случае работать бы не смог. Мне это было психологически необходимо, на самом деле. А потом я влюбился в это ремесло и понял, что это то, чем я хочу заниматься.
Несколько лет назад вы основали продюсерскую компанию. Было ли это способом поставить перед собой какую-то цель помимо актерства?
Как раз в то время, как вышел "Стартрек", я подумал: «Это мой самый большой успех, и я хочу быть уверен, что я и дальше буду расти, а не терять позиции». Я осознал, что моя известность позволяет мне сделать и что она не будет длиться долго, так что я создал компанию, – и это принесло большое удовлетворение и творческий опыт. Всегда главное – баланс. Нужно постоянно балансировать между коммерческой стороной вопроса и творческой. Это очень тонкая граница, идти по ней нужно с большой осторожностью.
Возможно, тебя очень легко может засосать в машину Голливуда, если не соблюдать осторожность.
Это очень опьяняет, на самом деле. Как Сирены, поющие на скалах. Тебя может затянуть, это что–то очень завораживающее и обладающее магнетизмом. И если ты позволишь себе потерять контроль, ты окажешься на мели. Я стараюсь прислушиваться к себе и к голосам других людей, которым безоговорочно доверяю, чтобы переплыть эти неспокойные воды. Столько вещей могут выйти на первый план. Например, индустрия и дистрибьюторы.
И деньги на кампанию для Оскара.
Именно.
Когда вышел фильм "All is lost", который вы продюсировали, говорили, что Роберт Редфорд - основный претендент на "Оскар". Но в итоге, его даже не номинировали.
Честно говоря, я думаю, все дело в том, насколько сильно человек этого хочет. И что я очень уважаю в Роберте – он не оценивает себя по этому принципу. Он в буквальном смысле живая легенда, он так многого добился как творческая личность и как филантроп, что признание такого рода ему не нужно. И уж точно ему не нужно бороться за него или платить за него. Я уважаю такое отношение. Конечно, мне было бы приятно увидеть, что его номинировали и оценили его работу, но, думаю, для меня, как для актера, это был важный урок. Нельзя делать работу, чтобы тебя за нее оценили. Это смертельно.
Вы также показали, что не считаетесь с мнением других людей, когда совершили каминг аут. Когда вы это делали, еще не знали, к чему это может привести.
Но я уже достиг определенного момента в жизни и своем пути, когда измерять все чужими ожиданиями и суждениями мне было уже неинтересно. Годами так было, и мне понадобилось много времени, чтобы это преодолеть. Не представляю, сколько энергии и сил может отнимать такая жизнь, когда тебе приходится лгать о том, кто ты есть на самом деле. У меня другой путь, мне неинтересно жить как-то по-другому. Я чувствую, что вещи очень быстро и кардинально меняются, и я хотел встать, хотел быть частью этих перемен, чтоб меня тоже сосчитали. Особенно потому, что у меня есть возможность на самом деле изменять жизнь других людей к лучшему.
Так и получилось?
Я не могу передать, скольких молодых людей я встречал, и сколько писем от людей я получил, в которых они открыто делились со мной тем, какое это имело для них значение. Это то, что я могу оставить после себя и знать, что это было частью положительного влияния, которое я смог оказать. Если ты делаешь это только для себя, это не помогает. Я серьезно отношусь к страданиям и боли молодых людей, которые не нашли той поддержки и принятия, которые были в моей жизни. Я хочу сделать все, что в моих силах, чтобы помочь им, дать им знать, что все пройдет и изменится и – как бы избито это ни звучало – все будет хорошо.
Вы выбрали удачный момент, т.к. вы только что сыграли Спока, и эта роль принесла вам большой успех и стала вашей постоянной ролью. Вас уже не могли заменить. Это было бы ужасным решением, даже для Голливуда.
Когда я принял это решение, я был в промо-туре "Предела риска", и я воспользовался этой возможностью. Не потому, что я боялся прессы во время "Стартрека", а потому, что я хотел это сделать сам по себе. Это был фильм, за который я нес ответственность как актер и продюсер. Мне не нужно было волноваться о реакции студии или внутри Голливуда. Это был фильм, который создала моя компания, которая бы не существовала, если бы я не достиг определенного уровня в своей карьере, и я подумал: «Я собираюсь использовать это, чтобы рассказать о том, кто я такой и кем я хочу быть». Мне предоставилась большая возможность, т.к. не было никого, кто бы сказал мне не делать этого или кто мог бы попытаться контролировать реакцию. Я очень благодарен за это.